Can I See God as a Good Father? With Stephen Kendrick [Episode 163]

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4:13 Podcast: Can I See God as a Good Father? With Stephen Kendrick [Episode 163]

Jennifer Rothschild: Not everyone has a great fatherhood story, but everyone can when they really get a glimpse of their Heavenly Father. Well, on today's episode you're not just going to see the Father, but you're going to get a behind-the-scenes view of the first ever documentary by the Kendrick Brothers. Plus, you're going to get the scoop on the release of the Courageous Legacy movie. This conversation was so interesting, and the insights that you get as you get a glimpse of the Kendrick brothers' own father is going to totally inspire you. So let's get to it.

K.C. Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and Biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you. Now, welcome your host, a woman who has candles burning all over her house right now, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. And they all smell like coffee. It just feels right. I do. I have hazelnut in the dining room, I had what was called "A Perfect Morning" burning in the kitchen, and then I have a vanilla latte in my bedroom. I you can't drink it, breathe it in. Okay. I'm Jennifer, y'all. We're super glad you're here today. It's going to be a good day on the 4:13. That was my seeing eye guy, K.C., Wright. We got one goal, and it's just to help you be and do more than you feel capable of as you really apply the truth of Philippians 4:13. Through Christ you can do anything he calls you to do, you can be exactly who he created you to be. But K.C., I've got to tell you, part of the reason my house smells so good this morning, I got super early. I felt energized. You know good feeling that you don't get often --

K.C. Wright: Oh, good.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- right?

K.C. Wright: That's a good report.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. It was 6:30. I had my coffee. I was listening to my Dwell Bible app, my playlist, and everything was good. Well, I had a candle that was really low -- okay? -- my Perfect Morning candle. It smells like coffee. It's beautiful. And it was really low. So I don't know if you do this, but when they're really low do you put them on a warmer, you know?

K.C. Wright: Yes. Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: So that's what I had done. Well, I forgot I put it on the warmer. And I went to pick up something, and when I did, I just skimmed the top of that jar and warm Perfect Morning wax went all over my countertop. And I'm like, okay, Jennifer, don't run too fast so you don't get injured. By the way, y'all, I'm blind. That's why I have to pay attention to all these little details. But I'm like doing this, like, Million Dollar Man run in slow motion to get to the paper towels, and I'm like, "Ahhh. " Then I have this Google dilemma. Do I have time to Google this? Do I let it dry? Do I get it while it's wet? Okay. So my perfect morning was slowly deteriorating.

K.C. Wright: Yeah, the perfect morning.

Jennifer Rothschild: But it was smelling really good. So I --

K.C. Wright: I wish this was scratch and sniff podcast right now so they could actually smell --

Jennifer Rothschild: I know.

K.C. Wright: -- the aroma in your home.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, you know what? They could actually smell the aroma on my hands, because I spent the morning cleaning that stuff. And I know there's some brilliant 4:13ers who are screaming right now, Why didn't you do such and such, 'cause I'm sure there's a way to do it.

K.C. Wright: Right.

Jennifer Rothschild: But I figured it out. I don't know if I figured it out the right way, but yeah, me and my spatula, we let it dry a little 'cause it dries so fast.

K.C. Wright: Oh, no.

Jennifer Rothschild: Anyway, it was very funny. So, yes, I'm going to have a coffee smell on my countertops for a while. But I just love the fragrance of coffee. I know you love the flavor K.C. But the fragrance, do you love that too?

K.C. Wright: Oh, yeah. And your home always smells so cozy with the candles and the coffee. And most of the time, except for today -- and I don't know what's up. Something is up in the atmosphere. But we normally have dark chocolate in the studio.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

K.C. Wright: -- just a little bit.

Jennifer Rothschild: What we don't have -- we don't right now because Jennifer is trying to be disciplined. That's why. But I have replaced my Ghirardelli chocolate chips, that I used to eat, with Lily's dark chocolate chips.

K.C. Wright: Ooo, I've never heard of Lily's.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah.

K.C. Wright: Okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: I don't know if they're totally sugar free or just less sugar, but low carb. They're really good. They're super good. So that is my -- I did have a handful of pecans and Lily's before I came down to the studio. I did not give you any. See, it's not a perfect morning, I'm just -- but here's the good thing. We're about to have some movie time --

K.C. Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- because we're going to be talking into the Kendrick Brothers. But actually, I will give you this little disclaimer. This conversation, it was really good, yet it was supposed to be with both Alex and Stephen, both Kendrick brothers. But Alex woke up, the morning that Stephen and I talked, not feeling super well, so Stephen was solo. And, of course, he represented both of them great. And I've gotten to talk to Stephen now twice, and I love every time I get to talk to him. In fact, if you haven't heard my conversation with Stephen Kendrick about their movie "Overcomer," that was on Episode 51. And not only is it a sweet insight into the movie, but it's super inspiring about how you can be an overcomer. So I'll have a link to that episode, which is Episode 51, at the show notes at 413podcast.com/163.

K.C. Wright: So let me introduce you to Stephen Kendrick. He was in church ministry for 20 years. Now he writes, speaks, and produces Christian films with his brothers Alex and Shannon, including the movies "Overcomer," "War Room," "Courageous," "Fireproof" --

Jennifer Rothschild: They're all good.

K.C. Wright: -- and "Facing the Giants." I have all of them. "War Room" is my favorite.

Jennifer Rothschild: Me too.

K.C. Wright: And now we can add to that list "Courageous Legacy" and "Show Me the Father." It's their first feature length documentary. Stephen cowrote the New York Times bestselling books "The Love Dare" -- life changer right there -- "The Resolution for Men," and "The Battle Plan for Prayer." You may have seen him on Fox & Friends, CNN, or ABC World News Tonight. Stephen and his wife, Jill, live in Albany, Georgia, with their six children, and today we are so pumped to have him back as a 413er. So get ready to get a behind-the-scene view of this documentary, "Show Me the Father" as Jennifer and Stephen talk fatherhood and films.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, Stephen, I am just so happy we get to talk about this. I'm super pumped because, actually, I am a documentary geek. So I know that some of our 4:13ers may have already seen and loved the "Show Me the Father" documentary. But for those who haven't yet, I would love it if you'd give us just a sneak peek about what it's about and take us back to the beginning, like, to the why. Why did you choose to do a documentary on this?

Stephen Kendrick: Okay. Well, "Show Me the Father" is in theaters, and it is about the Fatherhood of God. And everybody has a fatherhood story, and Scripture talks about the glory of children and their fathers, God wants to turn the hearts of fathers back to their children, and children to their fathers. And what we found out when we were working on the movie "Courageous" is that anytime you get someone to really open up about their own father, oftentimes they get real tender. And many times it results in tears because either they loved him and respect him so deeply or he hurt them so deeply, or he was never there for them. And so the Fatherhood of God, though, is really the source of all fatherhood on earth it says in Ephesians 3. And so God created this role on earth as a living introduction to who he is. So "Show Me the Father" is our first documentary film. It's very cinematic. It takes you on twists and turns, emotional journey of five different fatherhood stories. But it's not just for men, it's for everybody. Kids can watch this, you know, adults love it. And it's really engaging and emotional and challenging. There's some funny moments, there's some twists and turns. But it really lands on that we have a perfect Father in heaven who wants a close relationship with us, and through Jesus we can not only know him, but after we become a Christian, we can walk with him and have a close relationship with him.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, a perfect Father. I'm wondering if you used any dad jokes in it, because that seems to be such a staple of fatherhood days. At least it is with the man I'm married to.

Stephen Kendrick: Right. I use dad jokes at home a lot, but I don't remember us putting any in the documentary.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. You kept the cheese factor out. Good.

Stephen Kendrick: Yeah. People take it pretty seriously. It starts off with a serious tone, but then it takes you on an emotional rollercoaster ride, so...

Jennifer Rothschild: I love that. I'm just so excited for people to be able to engage and to get a glimpse of the Father. So for you personally, I know that you talk about the adoption process of your sweet little girl. So give us a glimpse of that process. And I'm curious how adoption may have helped your understanding of fatherhood.

Stephen Kendrick: Wow. Well, yes. So my daughter's adoption from China. We had four biological children, and the Lord prompted us to adopt. My wife had been praying for me for years that I would be open to it, and I didn't know that. She was not trying to force me into doing something that God was not in, so she was just trusting the Lord, and the Lord turned my heart towards adoption. And I was actually on an airplane ride when he spoke to me through John 10. So we went to China two years later, we adopted a baby girl, brought her back home. And I had no idea what I was going to learn about fatherhood, and really our own spiritual adoption through that journey. Because Ephesians 1 says that when we believe in Jesus, that God adopts us into his family and that we -- our identity completely changes. And that identity shift of my daughter was so radical. Her name changed, her background changed, her family changed, her provision. All of those things completely changed in her life. And now she has a bright, hopeful future. Before she was in a Communist country, abandoned, a bother and a burden to society, and now she's a welcome beloved daughter in our home. And she has -- all the educational, medical needs, you know, are there for her. She has the same inheritance and rights as all of my other children. She has access to my heart and my lap and my ear. And, in fact, I just talked to her a second ago about how she was feeling today. But Mia, her identity completely changed because of that adoption, not because of anything that she had done. And if you read Ephesians 1 and 2, it says that when we believe in Jesus and God adopts us into His family, verse 3 says we are now blessed with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus. And then it begins to list our identity, all that we are and all that we have in Him, that we're now forgiven of all of our sins. That's part of the adoption package that comes from knowing Jesus. We have the Holy Spirit in us helping us every day, we have a hope of eternal life. We are beloved, accepted. And if believers will realize that, discover that, let that sink into their hearts, it foundationally can transform how they view themselves, how they view God, how they view everything else. Because we also have boldness and access to his throne as part of the adoption process. We have access to His heart and his ear. And so it really --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, just like Mia does, yeah.

Stephen Kendrick: That's right. So that whole parallel of adoption really opened my eyes to our spiritual identity in Christ. And it's one of the most incredible revelations that can ever happen in your life, is to discover who you are in Christ and who he is to you through Christ.

Jennifer Rothschild: So, Stephen, if adoption gave you just a concrete picture of our Heavenly Father and you've learned so many lessons from that, I'm curious about your own dad growing up.

Stephen Kendrick: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: What kind of impact has he had? What have you learned from your earthly father that has impacted your own fatherhood?

Stephen Kendrick: Wow. He is my heart and my hero. I deeply love my dad. His whole journey is an incredible picture of the Gospel transforming a family tree. Because he grew up with a father and a grandfather that were alcoholic, unfaithful to their wives, running from God, living in rebellion, and my dad experienced the suffering, the poverty, the fear, the insecurity, all the -- you know, the hurts of growing up without dad really being there, or when he does come home, he's intoxicated. But our dad heard the Gospel. My grandmother came to Christ in her thirties and she started taking her two sons and daughter to church. And my father, at 13 years of age, made a decision for Christ, and that completely transformed our family tree in the long run because our dad basically resolved -- he said, "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." He said, "I will be faithful to God and to my wife and my children." And so we grew up in a home watching Dad throwing off the old ways, old methods, old traditions and habits that he had been handed by his own father, and embracing a more Biblical fatherhood. And he was driving in the dark, you know, because he had not seen it modeled at home. And so he's reading Scriptures and listening to "Focus on the Family" and, you know, James Dobson, reading his books. He's talking to other Godly men. And I would walk in sometimes, stumble upon him, and he would be not reading -- looking at pornography, he would be on his knees crying out to God, you know, on behalf of our family, you know, "Lord, help me, help our family." Because he was still dealing with his own fears and insecurities. So we grew up hearing him tell us he loved us unconditionally. We saw him keeping his promises, we saw him seeking the Lord. We saw incredible answers to prayer in his life, and then him just being faithful. Even when he was attacked and shot at by other people, Dad would just choose integrity and choose forgiveness and choose to follow the Lord. And so when we would see hypocrisy in the church, we would come home to authentic Christianity lived out at home. And that was just excellent preparation for following the Lord, but also for ministry in the future.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, your living is legacy, too. It's a beautiful picture. And what I heard you say that I think is a real encouragement, Stephen -- you know, there are some dads probably listening here like, oh, man, I feel like I have to work too much or I feel like I can't provide the latest such and such that so and so has. What you're saying is the depth of the impact that has shaped you or has, you know, contributed to shaping you was your dad's authenticity, was your dad's prayerfulness, was your dad just saying, "I love you" and living it out. And I think that gives a lot of freedom to a lot of guys who may be chained up by a lot of guilt.

Stephen Kendrick: Sure.

Jennifer Rothschild: I've had a hero dad too, and it has totally changed the way I -- my future unfolded. And so thank you, Lord, for the dads who do the right thing when no one's looking, because it shows up later in generations. You know, I'm a mom of two boys, and now I have three grandboys, so all I can say is watch out world, here they come.

Stephen Kendrick: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: But I'm curious, Stephen, your advice. What do you think we can do for young men that could help set them up to be, you know, great dads, like yours was, in the future?

Stephen Kendrick: I would say give them hope. Let them know that in this generation that's depressed, that is really struggling, they're not seeing Godly Fatherhood modeled in television, on the Internet, in movies that they're watching. But I tell people, if you grew up in a home like I did, where you saw the integrity and the love there, then it would be easy for you to believe that when you pray, God loves you and he'll listen, and he cares and he wants to answer. But if you are damaged and wounded by your dad, if he always broke his promises, if he never had time for you, if he didn't have your heart and you're bitter with him, it's easy for us to translate that over into the Fatherhood of God. And so "Show Me the Father" documentary parallels the fatherhood of people and how we'll project those feelings and thoughts over on to God, and that we have to let Jesus be the example that we're looking at to see what God is like. Because that's what Jesus said.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Stephen Kendrick: He said, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. I came to do the will of the Father. I came to speak the words of the Father." So instead of looking at your earthly father to figure out what God the Father is like, you look at Jesus and you say, what do we see in Jesus? We see incredible compassion. We see incredible love, meeting our needs at every level. And every town he went into, he would see the needs of the people. And if they're hungry, he's feeding; if they're ignorant, he's teaching; if they're demon possessed, he's casting out the demons. He's loving them at every level in the trenches. And when he gives us the prodigal son story, he shows the heart of the Father of leaving the front porch, looking out, waiting for son, and running to embrace him. And when he didn't deserve it at all, saying, "Take my best robe and put it on my son." I mean, that is the gracious heart of our Heavenly Father, and Jesus modeled that. And we need to translate that over in our prayer life and our viewing God even as we're reading the Scriptures.

Jennifer Rothschild: Such a good word. I mean, for all the time, but for this generation. And you mentioned the documentary. I know there's a lot of powerful stories. So I don't want this to be necessarily a big spoiler alert for those who haven't seen it yet, but I would love it if you would share with us maybe one that just really impacted you personally.

Stephen Kendrick: Well, Jim Daly is the President of "Focus on the Family," and he grew up without a dad. His dad was alcoholic and was in and out of his life. In his story we feature in this, it's emotional, it's powerful, it's inspiring. He walks through what it was like to grow up with his dad, with all the dysfunction in dad's life, and then how his father died and how heartbreaking that was for him, and then how God sent him Godly men. Because Scripture says in Psalm 68 that God will be the father to the fatherless.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Stephen Kendrick: So anyone -- any single mom out there who is like, What am I going to do? Dads are so important and my kids don't have a dad, you know, well, God can step in in that situation and begin to provide other men in their lives: coaches, teachers, pastors, youth ministers, mentors, friends, you know, the dads of their friends, and begin to fill in those gaps and teach them about the Fatherhood of God. And so any time a kid comes to know Christ, God becomes their Father and actively gets involved. And he does it at every level. He teaches us, he provides for us. He disciplines us Hebrews 12 says. He shows compassion for us, it says in Psalms. And so all of those attributes of fatherhood, God will begin to do in our lives. And so Jim Daly's story walks through that. And even as an adult, he talks about God reminding him and saying to him, "Even in the hard days have not I been a good Father to you?" And it's very powerful. One of the things about this documentary, it's not a boring, you know, statistical sitting around talking heads. It really is a cinematic rollercoaster and people will be engaged. And there are some really good twists and turns, that I don't want to give away, that happen in it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay.

Stephen Kendrick: But you will end it, having watched it hopefully with your family and your friends, and you will be challenged, inspired, more in love with God, and realizing how much more so he's in love with you.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, Stephen, that's how I feel at the end of all of your movies, got to be honest, I really do. The Lord has really gifted you all to accomplish that. So speaking of movies one more time -- let's switch gears for just one second. Okay?

Stephen Kendrick: Sure.

Jennifer Rothschild: Because you are also re-releasing "Courageous" because it's ten years old.

Stephen Kendrick: That's right.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can't even believe it. Okay. So why are you choosing to rerelease it, and how is it going to be different, or what could people expect?

Stephen Kendrick: So "Show Me the Father" came out September 10 and "Courageous Legacy" is October the 15th.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay.

Stephen Kendrick: Sony's releasing it in theaters all across the United States. And "Courageous" -- tor ten years we've been hearing stories of international impact of "Courageous." And that whole story of honor begins at home, and you're watching these different police officers. It was actually our own dad's earthly resolution of, "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord" that changed our family, and so we feature that in "Courageous." It's kind of founded upon this commitment that the men make, this resolution, and you see how it transforms their families as well, and so -- but "Courageous," you know, we had a thousand police officers in the Philippines that came to Christ from "Courageous." There were hundreds of officers in Panama and Ecuador and other places around the world that were impacted. But just families in general, men saying, you know, I've forgiven my dad now, or, I've reconnected with my children now after having seen this movie. And so we realized we're coming up on ten years of "Courageous," and we have a whole new generation of young men who haven't seen the movie that it's been -- you know, millions of men have become dads in the last ten years, and these messages from Scripture are just as relevant as ever. And so we went back we re-edited the film, we added in deleted scenes, we add in an introduction where we share some of the impact that it's had around the world originally. It's recolored in 4k, it is Dolby Digital sound 5.1 better, and then we shot a new ending to show these officers ten years later. So it's really an event now when you watch the whole thing. But it's coming out in theaters. Sony has been very gracious to jump on board and say, let's release this across the U.S. again. So if you haven't seen "Courageous" yet, this is the best time to do it because it is the best version. If you have seen the movie, or if it's been a while, then I would encourage you, please take someone else. Take a young man, you know, take another family who hasn't seen it yet and experience this film in 4k quality with a new ending. And a great opportunity now to go back to the theaters with your church family --

Jennifer Rothschild: Amen.

Stephen Kendrick: -- or with your friends and see a good family friendly movie that has action, it has humor. I mean, the Snake King scene in it is hilarious. The action scenes that are in it or on, you know, edge of your seat, so it's a fun film.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's fantastic. And I think it's brilliant and for such a time as this. All right, my brother, last question. Okay?

Stephen Kendrick: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: You know, a lot of us listening are parents or fathers, you know, so let's just talk for a second here on Parenthood in general. Okay? Most of us have really given it our best shot. But I also would think that most of us have some regrets.

Stephen Kendrick: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: So what would you say to the dad or the parent who's listening and they think, Oh, crud. I'm looking back in my rearview mirror and I realize I did not show my kids who their Heavenly Father was through the way I parented, or, I may have even created some confusion, so I can't get a redo. So what would you tell them, Stephen, that they could do even now?

Stephen Kendrick: Well, my dad growing up would say, "Start where you are and go forward as fast as you can." That was one of his little statements to us. And you see in Scripture in Ephesians 5, knowing the days are evil, we need to redeem the time, making the most of every opportunity. And so I would say a few things. One, if we need to repent of any sin in our lives, let's do it. Let's confess it to the Lord, let's get right with him. And secondly, if we've wronged or hurt anyone else, we should go to them. And we feature that in our films. Oftentimes you'll see dads apologizing in our films. Because our own dad would come to us -- and it was one of the things I loved and admired so much about him, was that he would say, Have I broken a promise and I didn't keep it? Have I wounded you? Have I disciplined you in anger and it was, you felt like, unjustified? You know, Have I ever done anything where you feel like I wasn't being loving and Christ-like? And he was ready to apologize and ask for our forgiveness. And forgiveness restores relationships. I mean, it brings so much healing. So that is one thing that I think we're all supposed to be doing with every area of our lives, is confessing and repenting, because we fall short in every area of our lives.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, yeah.

Stephen Kendrick: But secondly, I would say love and truth and prayer. Scripture says, in Ephesians 4, we should speak the truth in love, and in that way we grow up into Christ's likeness. So pouring out love and winning the hearts of your children, even as they're adults, reaching out to them, reconciling with them, praying for them specifically. We cannot change one another's hearts. Many times we wish we could stick our hand in our kids' hearts and turn it in one direction or the other. And we can't, but God can. And so for us to pray specifically. And we need to pray with the long game in mind. In Scripture sometimes you'll see God answer prayer the day you pray it. Sometimes it's a week or a month later. But sometimes it's decades where in Scripture you'll see God -- a model that people are praying, and they just continue to seek the Lord and wait on Him. Well, his timing is perfect and he will answer. If you pray 100 prayers, he's going to answer some of them immediately or very quickly. But some of them you're going to have to wait on. And when we're dealing with people's hearts, we have to trust the Lord's timing in that situation. But we cannot give up. We have seen in our own family some things that God has done where he has answered ten years of praying and then there's been breakthrough. And we just rejoice over the faithfulness of God. And we grew in the process while we were waiting. But I would say reach out, win the hearts of your children regardless of where they are, pour out God's love on them, then begin to speak truth in that environment, that context of love. And then at the same time be praying. And then trust the Lord and watch Him show up, because he does work miracles. He's just as powerful as he's ever been. And with God, all things are still possible.

K.C. Wright: I love his dad's advice. Start where you are and go forward as fast as you can.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, I love that too.

K.C. Wright: That is just what we need to hear. Because no matter what you did or didn't do in the past, you can start today all over again where you are, because God's mercies right now are new every morning.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yep, every morning.

K.C. Wright: Because we used up all of yesterday's, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, we did. You know what, also I loved when he said that if you want to be the parent that you were created to be, that you should love in truth and prayer, you reach out, you reconcile, you pray for your kids. I just loved that. It was so practical.

K.C. Wright: You need to see "Show Me the Father" and you need to head to the theater to see "Courageous Legacy," which released on my birthday, September 10. We will have all that info on the show notes to get you connected. But you can also use the mighty Google to find how and where you can watch. Show notes are at 413podcast.com/163.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. And when you head to the movie to see "Courageous Legacy," or if you're downloading or streaming, "Show Me the Father," I'm just going to say that you might need -- something to be considered, ladies -- waterproof mascara. Just saying. Just saying.

K.C. Wright: Well, our people, we are done for today. But remember this truth: the Father loves you. He is for you and with you. And you can trust him because you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

Jennifer and K.C.: And you can.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, good stuff, K.C.

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: And I'm thinking buttered pop. And it's fun because a lot of us can go back to movie theaters now.

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's really fun.

K.C. Wright: With some Milk Duds.

Jennifer Rothschild: With some Milk Duds. I like dark chocolate peanut M & M's with popcorn.

K.C. Wright: Oh, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooo, that's what I'm saying.

K.C. Wright: Movie time.

Jennifer Rothschild: Do you remember back in the day Sugar Babies? That's what I used to get.

K.C. Wright: Oh, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: I loved it.

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

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